I Wish I Knew How to Quit You - The BYU Sports Thread

[Utah]

I'm not so sure I'd trade Wilson for Hill.

Look at Wilson's #'s vs mid majors. Look at Hill's numbers vs P5 teams.

I think the two QB's are a lot closer than we realize, but the competition skews the picture.

I'll see if I can dig up the stats in my spreadsheets and post them.

[wally]

I'm not so sure I'd trade Wilson for Hill.

Yes you are. Wilson is a pretty decent-ish BQ, and I like him, but if all their numbers are relatively equal, who do you think is the better leader? I am not going to chose the guy that got detained at a Tim McGraw concert.

Besides, Hill is a legit Heisman candidate. Even has videos on youtube.

[USS Utah]

Plus, without any receivers, it's not like Utah needs a QB who can throw.

[sancho]

Plus, without any receivers, it's not like Utah needs a QB who can throw.

I hate our wr situation. Isn't there a jc transfer joining us for fall?

[Diehard Ute]

I hate our wr situation. Isn't there a jc transfer joining us for fall?

We have several new receivers for fall


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[U-Ute]

I don't know. Plenty of running QBs have managed to stay healthy over the course of a season. It just takes a little luck.

Maybe he's not living right.

[Utah]

So, I dug through my spreadsheets and here is how Wilson and Hill stack up:

I skipped 2012, because TW only played vs P5 and TH only played against mid majors (MM).

TW vs P5 2013: 58%, 267 yards, 2 TD, 3 INT, 6 yards/rush attempt, 1 TD/game
TH vs P5 2013: 46%, 210 yards, .71 TD, .85 INT, 5.5 yards/rush attempt, .85 TD/game

in 2013, vs P5 competition, Wilson was the better QB when Wilson was healthy.

TW vs MM 2013: 67%, 280 yards/gm, 2 TD, 0 INT, 5 yards/rush attempt, 1 TD/game
TH vs MM 2013: 66%, 235 yards/gm, 2 TD, 1 INT, 5 yards/rush attempt, 0.8 TD/game

Again, TW was the better QB vs MM comp.

TW vs P5 2014: 60%, 173 yards, 1 TD, 0.5 INT, 1 yard/rush attempt, 0 TD/game
TH vs P5 2014: 51%, 215 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 5 yards/rush attempt, 1 TD/game

Would you definitely take Hill over Wilson? I'm not so sure. Kind of a toss up.

TW vs MM 2014: 64%, 201 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT, 5 yards/rush attempt, 1 TD/game
TH vs MM 2014: 70%, 202 yards, 1.5 TD, 0.667 INT, 6 yards/rush attempt, 1 TD/game

Again, where is Hill "clearly" the better QB? Kind of a toss up.

Career averages:
TW vs P5: 60%, 171 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 1.42 yards/rush attempt, 0.315 TD/game
TH vs P5: 49%, 204 yards, 0.77 TD, 0.77 INT, 5 yards/rush attempt, 1 TD/game

TW vs MM: 65%, 240 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT, 5.5 yards/rush attempt, 1 TD/game
TH vs MM: 66%, 213 yards, 2 TD, 1 INT, 5.5 yards/rush attempt, .77 TD/game

TW vs P5: 9-10
TH vs P5: 4-5

TW vs MM: 6-0
TH vs MM: 9-0

Utah's record years TW started: 5-7, 5-7, 9-4 (final ranking of 21)
BYU's record years TH started: 8-5, 8-5, 8-5

Now, who knows what BYU could have done last year if Hill had stayed healthy. That being said, who knows how Utah could have been in 2013 if Wilson had stayed healthy. We were 4-2 and had just beat #5 Stanford. So, the point is injuries happen.

Taysom Hill is a product of some highlight reels and subpar competition. Statistically, he is not heads and shoulders above Wilson. Like I said, I'm not sure I trade Hill for Wilson. They both have their ups and downs. Wilson is a better passer. Hill is a better runner. Don't get suckered into some highlights and stats padded by mid-majors. Neither one is a very good QB.

[Utah]

tl/dr

They have eerily, identical stats. Neither one is a great QB, and neither one is a heisman QB. Wilson has led a top 25 team, Hill has not. That is about the only number that is different between the two.

[Utah]

Yes you are. Wilson is a pretty decent-ish BQ, and I like him, but if all their numbers are relatively equal, who do you think is the better leader? I am not going to chose the guy that got detained at a Tim McGraw concert.

Besides, Hill is a legit Heisman candidate. Even has videos on youtube.

One, if their numbers are equal, either Hill is not a heisman contender or Wilson is. You can't have it both ways.

Two, the Tim McGraw concert? Come one, we are better than that. KVN received a DUI. That didn't prove anything on the field. The McGraw concert is completely 100% irrelevant.

Three, Wilson has beaten top 10 teams. Hill has beat a Texas team that was ranked 15, but ended the year unranked. Stanford ended the year #5.

Again, I'm not sure I'm trading Hill for Wilson. Other than a couple of highlights (BTW, I can show just as many hurdling highlight of Wilson), what is the difference between two average QB's?

There is a reason why Stanford wanted to move Hill to safety, and why Hill then transferred to BYU. He is an average QB with no chance at the NFL as a QB.

Right now, today, Wilson is still the better NFL prospect. Wilson could come out, have a huge year and get drafted. Hill probably won't, because he can't pass worth a crap. Hill is a really, really poor man's Tebow. Wilson could come out and have a year like Osweiler's SR year. Probably won't happen, but it has a better chance of happening than Hill suddenly becoming an NFL QB.

[LA Ute]

But like wally said, Taysom Hill has a lot of Youtubes. Plus a really cool first name.

[Diehard Ute]

But like wally said, Taysom Hill has a lot of Youtubes. Plus a really cool first name.

If you rate it on the Utah county south naming system


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[Rocker Ute]

I'm not as upset about the possession of alcohol by a minor as I am that he was at a Tim McGraw concert.

Now, typing this on my phone I'm upset that the predictive typing function had 'McGraw' properly capitalized and in there.

[SoCalPat]

tl/dr

They have eerily, identical stats. Neither one is a great QB, and neither one is a heisman QB. Wilson has led a top 25 team, Hill has not. That is about the only number that is different between the two.

How convenient of you to give a half-painted canvas of Hill's rushing statistics. He ran for 1,344 yards in 2013, a figure that would rank fourth all-time at Utah for single-season rushing. He might very well rank higher if you use the NFL model for rushing yards, which takes sacks surrendered and applies it to passing yards, not rushing yards. His 259 rushing yards against Texas that year would be a Utah single-game school record. If Hill has another 2013-like rushing season this year, he would threaten the career rushing mark at Utah (3,219, Eddie Johnson).

No one, and I mean no one, with any credibility in the national CFB sporting press would dare attempt to make the argument you're trying to make. They would get laughed out of the room. Hill's running ability is miles ahead of whatever Wilson's best quality is, and as you've clearly shown, there's not a lot of separation between both as passers. Eerily, identical stats? That's fanboy garbage right there. Find me the stat in which Wilson ranks as an all-timer like Hill has with rushing.

[sancho]

Football stats are mostly meaningless. I know by the eye test that Hill is the better QB. I'm okay with that. I like our QB a lot, and I think we are better than BYU in pretty much every other position except maybe TE and WR.

[utefan]

How convenient of you to give a half-painted canvas of Hill's rushing statistics. He ran for 1,344 yards in 2013, a figure that would rank fourth all-time at Utah for single-season rushing. He might very well rank higher if you use the NFL model for rushing yards, which takes sacks surrendered and applies it to passing yards, not rushing yards. His 259 rushing yards against Texas that year would be a Utah single-game school record. If Hill has another 2013-like rushing season this year, he would threaten the career rushing mark at Utah (3,219, Eddie Johnson).

No one, and I mean no one, with any credibility in the national CFB sporting press would dare attempt to make the argument you're trying to make. They would get laughed out of the room. Hill's running ability is miles ahead of whatever Wilson's best quality is, and as you've clearly shown, there's not a lot of separation between both as passers. Eerily, identical stats? That's fanboy garbage right there. Find me the stat in which Wilson ranks as an all-timer like Hill has with rushing.

I think part of his point was that Hill's stats are inflated by the number of mid majors he plays against. Hard to compare his overall stats with Wilson's when Wilson is playing one of the toughest schedules in the nation.

He could have also mentioned that Wilson played in an offense that wasn't catered to him, while Hill gets every opportunity to showcase his skill and pad his stats.

I suspect Wilson will have a great 2015.

[SoCalPat]

I think part of his point was that Hill's stats are inflated by the number of mid majors he plays against. Hard to compare his overall stats with Wilson's when Wilson is playing one of the toughest schedules in the nation.

He could have also mentioned that Wilson played in an offense that wasn't catered to him, while Hill gets every opportunity to showcase his skill and pad his stats.

I suspect Wilson will have a great 2015.

Meh. In 2013, Utah's SOS per Sagarin was 3rd. BYU's was 38th, which was right in line with most of the Big 12 and was the fourth-rated conference per Sagarin and a tougher SOS than just about every team in the ACC and Big 10.

[wally]

I'm not as upset about the possession of alcohol by a minor as I am that he was at a Tim McGraw concert.

Now, typing this on my phone I'm upset that the predictive typing function had 'McGraw' properly capitalized and in there.

You hit the nail on the head. This is the real reason Wilson was not elected a captain last year, IMO. How can anyone vote for anybody that goes to a McGraw concert?

[wally]

One, if their numbers are equal, either Hill is not a heisman contender or Wilson is. You can't have it both ways.

I was joking about the heisman thing. sorry if that wasn't obvious.

Two, the Tim McGraw concert? Come one, we are better than that. KVN received a DUI. That didn't prove anything on the field. The McGraw concert is completely 100% irrelevant.

Joking about this too, except for the fact that Tim McGraw sucks.

Three, Wilson has beaten top 10 teams. Hill has beat a Texas team that was ranked 15, but ended the year unranked. Stanford ended the year #5.

Point to me which top ten team we beat on offensive merit and moreover on the merits of Wilson's quarterbacking abilities. We won on defense. Conversely, BYU's defense leaked like a sieve and victories were to be had by the offense, which was mostly Hill. If Hill hadn't been injured, BYU would have likely played a decent bowl opponent and had a shot to prove themselves there.

Again, I'm not sure I'm trading Hill for Wilson. Other than a couple of highlights (BTW, I can show just as many hurdling highlight of Wilson), what is the difference between two average QB's?

When Hill hurdled opponents though, he mostly landed on his feet not his face.

There is a reason why Stanford wanted to move Hill to safety, and why Hill then transferred to BYU. He is an average QB with no chance at the NFL as a QB.

Right now, today, Wilson is still the better NFL prospect. Wilson could come out, have a huge year and get drafted. Hill probably won't, because he can't pass worth a crap. Hill is a really, really poor man's Tebow. Wilson could come out and have a year like Osweiler's SR year. Probably won't happen, but it has a better chance of happening than Hill suddenly becoming an NFL QB.

I forget are we talking about Utah competing in the PAC-12 or winning the Super Bowl? Didn't Tebow win a national championship? I think that I'd go ahead and take Tebow right now over Hill or Wilson. College is not the Pros, bro.

I get that we are Utes and that we are supposed to hate BYU, but dammit, I am just too intellectually honest to go trying to convince myself that Hill is just a rubbish QB!

BTW, I do like Wilson, but I would still make the trade!

[sancho]

If Hill hadn't been injured, BYU would have likely played a decent bowl opponent and had a shot to prove themselves there.

Is that true? I thought they were locked into the Miami bowl no matter what (unless they were picked to a NY6 bowl, which was not happening).

[Utah]

Is that true? I thought they were locked into the Miami bowl no matter what (unless they were picked to a NY6 bowl, which was not happening).

BYU was going to play in a crap bowl no matter what.

Wally - I love how excuses are made for Hill but not Wilson. We were 4-2 and beat a top 5 team when Wilson was hurt in 2013. How different would 2013 gone if Wilson had not been hurt? He couldn't grip a football the rest of the year. We go bowling with a healthy Wilson.

Why is Hill given every excuse, when he plays a weak schedule (and please don't compare a schedule playing 4 P5 teams to one playing 9+. BYU's schedule is weak) and has an offense that is tailored to his strengths.

Why is Wilson thrown under the bus when he plays hurt, beats top 10 teams, leads us on game winning drives, takes us from a 14 point swing because of Clay to battle back in the game, all while playing for an OC that doesn't want him starting?

Hill has been given everything, and yet isn't any better than Wilson.

And don't give me the "I know a QB when I see one" bs. You sound like BYU fan proclaiming Jake Heaps dominance over the world. Yeah, Hill looks nice. I'm not here to win a swimsuit contest. I want results. And the facts are, both produce eerily the same. Wilson is a better passer. Hill is a better runner.

[sancho]

"I know a QB when I see one" bs.

The eye test means more than statistics with QBs. I like Wilson. He's had some great moments - Stanford '13, USC '14 are the two that I remember best. He's had to play against the best. He's had to deal with injury. He's never been paired with a good WR corp. I just think Hill is better.

[utefan]

The eye test means more than statistics with QBs. I like Wilson. He's had some great moments - Stanford '13, USC '14 are the two that I remember best. He's had to play against the best. He's had to deal with injury. He's never been paired with a good WR corp. I just think Hill is better.

I remember Hill with around a 30% completion rate a couple years ago, until the schedule softened up and then his numbers suddenly got better.

The guy runs like the wind, no doubt. But with time running out and needing a touchdown to win against a great USC defense, I'd rather have Wilson leading the drive.

With time running out and needing a score to tie (or win) against a great Stanford defense, I'd rather have Wilson than Hill.

The level of competition they're each playing against is just not comparable. I'm sure Wilson would look great against a bunch of Mountain West teams. He sure looked great against Fresno State and Colorado State. And that was with a nightmare OC in charge of the offense.

Let's see what happens in 2015 before we declare Hill to be better. I expect a great season from Wilson.

[sancho]

I expect a great season from Wilson.

So do I. Especially after seeing that graduation photo LA posted. TW looks like a guy about to take over.

[wally]

The eye test means more than statistics with QBs. I like Wilson. He's had some great moments - Stanford '13, USC '14 are the two that I remember best. He's had to play against the best. He's had to deal with injury. He's never been paired with a good WR corp. I just think Hill is better.

I agree.

Tell you what, we have the entire 2015 season to see which QB ends their career with better production. Both teams face pretty tough schedules this time. Utah faces the tougher schedule, but BYU's is nowhere near as light as last year. I hope Both QBs stay healthy, and if I end up being wrong and Wilson just lights up our competition, and Hill tanks, I will come eat crow.

[USS Utah]

Football stats are mostly meaningless. I know by the eye test that Hill is the better QB. I'm okay with that. I like our QB a lot, and I think we are better than BYU in pretty much every other position except maybe TE and WR.

Hill is a better QB? Really? Hill is a great runner . . . and that's it.

I want more than a great runner at QB.

[USS Utah]

I honestly don't get the hype for Hill, here or anywhere else. Like I said, he is a great runner, but Stewart was a better QB than Hill is. Utah State had a couple of QBs better than Hill is.

I won't say Wilson is a better QB, but I think an argument can be made that he is better that he is given credit for being.

[sancho]

Hill is a better QB? Really? Hill is a great runner . . . and that's it.

I want more than a great runner at QB.

Alright. Majority rules. I will no longer make the trade!

[wally]

Post Spring training NCAA Footbal Power Rankings: http://www.si.com/college-football/2...power-rankings

Guess who comes in at #23?

A clue: the only local team with the legit Heisman candidate at QB.

[sancho]

Post Spring training NCAA Footbal Power Rankings: http://www.si.com/college-football/2...power-rankings

Guess who comes in at #23?

A clue: the only local team with the legit Heisman candidate at QB.

Booooo!!!!

I would really be happy with an 0-4 start, but every one of those four teams has some pretty big question marks going into this season. 4-0 would be a nightmare. Even 3-1 would be pretty lousy.


UCLA - new starter at QB
Boise - lost Ajayi and OC Sanford
Nebraska - has been consistently bad for a long time, plus new coach, plus new RB, plus no QB
Michigan - has been pretty bad for a few years, who knows with new coach though

[USS Utah]

Post Spring training NCAA Footbal Power Rankings: http://www.si.com/college-football/2...power-rankings

Guess who comes in at #23?

A clue: the only local team with the legit Heisman candidate at QB.

So what? Utah has a legit Heisman candidate at RB.