An officer down in my neighborhood

[Two Utes]

I'll try to shut up about this but as I think about things a couple of truths:

There is too much police violence, although I'm sympathetic to the situations they are put in that I believe contributes to this. Specifically any situation that they go into is life threatening. Pulling over someone with a tail light out can end your life. So being in hat situation of course you are keyed up.

I believe that most officers work hard to do everything they can to never have to take a human life, yet the are prepared and trained to do what's necessary and the end of the day they just want to go home alive.

So if those are the three elements: 1. most officers don't want to kill anyone, 2. Their jobs are highly and insanely stressful and dangerous, 3. They'll do what any human would do and will act to preserve their own lives... How do we teach and train them in such a way as to provide them with the best protection so they feel safe and also work to preserve human life?

There isn't an easy answer to that but I believe there are solutions. This is at least what we need to do to approach the first problem.


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And my thoughts are Police officers have guns. If you attack a police officer with a shovel he is going to shoot you. If you resist arrest and he feels threatened, there is good chance he is going to shoot you. If you refuse to cooperate and he feels threatened, he might shoot you. So, do you what normal humans do when dealing with cops--cooperate. Then, if they are being difficult, after you roll up the window, call them mother fuckers under your breath. Or, if they arrest you (even if you think wrongfully), cooperate and live to fight another day.

[UtahsMrSports]

And my thoughts are Police officers have guns. If you attack a police officer with a shovel he is going to shoot you. If you resist arrest and he feels threatened, there is good chance he is going to shoot you. If you refuse to cooperate and he feels threatened, he might shoot you. So, do you what normal humans do when dealing with cops--cooperate. Then, if they are being difficult, after you roll up the window, call them mother fuckers under your breath. Or, if they arrest you (even if you think wrongfully), cooperate and live to fight another day.

I saw multiple people on twitter last night saying that anyone who says stuff like this doesn't have a voice in this discussion because...........#privilege. That attitude might be the most useless and strange contribution to this discussion Ive seen. (For Clarity...........their attitude, not yours Two Utes, as I agree with you.)

[Two Utes]

I saw multiple people on twitter last night saying that anyone who says stuff like this doesn't have a voice in this discussion because...........#privilege. That attitude might be the most useless and strange contribution to this discussion Ive seen. (For Clarity...........their attitude, not yours Two Utes, as I agree with you.)

I get it that I don't get pulled over like people of color do. I also don't get pulled over as much as poor white people because my registration is up to date and I regularly fix any problems with my car that might cause a cop to pull me over (partly because I have enough money to do that and partly because I pay attention to stuff that needs to be done).

So what? Are you entitled to resist arrest because you get pulled over more than rich people? (rich black people also tend to do fairly well in the justice system)

It's a problem that minorities get pulled over more. But that still doesn't give them a right to resist arrest.

[concerned]

I get it that I don't get pulled over like people of color do. I also don't get pulled over as much as poor white people because my registration is up to date and I regularly fix any problems with my car that might cause a cop to pull me over (partly because I have enough money to do that and partly because I pay attention to stuff that needs to be done).

So what? Are you entitled to resist arrest because you get pulled over more than rich people? (rich black people also tend to do fairly well in the justice system)

It's a problem that minorities get pulled over more. But that still doesn't give them a right to resist arrest.

Well, I didn't see anything in the Minnesota video to suggest that the passenger was resisting arrest or going for a gun (after he supposedly told the officer he had one per protocol), although the video only captures the aftermath. It is unclear to me why the officer had his gun drawn or why he told the passenger to put his hands in the air for a broken tail light. I suspect, but dont know, that the officer panicked when the passenger told him he had a gun and a permit.

I don't think any of us can appreciate what it means to an African American and be pulled over because of skin color. My daughter has a very close friend who wants to be a doctor with a 4.0 gpa in the West IB. Her parents are both on the faculty at the U. They were coming back from Moab up highway 6 a couple of weeks ago. The daughter was driving. The highway patrol pulled her over. When he approached the car and realized that there was a family inside, he waved them off and told them to never mind. They knew they were pulled over because the driver was African American. The daughter has expressed to my daughter an extreme sense of violation, and says her parents feels the same way, at least as strongly. Knowing them, I am sure that is true.

That doesn't happen to us.


But you are right about one thing--I heard Don Lemon say on CNN the other night that he always always always does exactly what the police say, because he cant take any risk as an AA.
.

[Two Utes]

Well, I didn't see anything in the Minnesota video to suggest that the passenger was resisting arrest or going for a gun (after he supposedly told the officer he had one per protocol), although the video only captures the aftermath. It is unclear to me why the officer had his gun drawn or why he told the passenger to put his hands in the air for a broken tail light. I suspect, but dont know, that the officer panicked when the passenger told him he had a gun and a permit.

I don't think any of us can appreciate what it means to an African American and be pulled over because of skin color. My daughter has a very close friend who wants to be a doctor with a 4.0 gpa in the West IB. Her parents are both on the faculty at the U. They were coming back from Moab up highway 6 a couple of weeks ago. The daughter was driving. The highway patrol pulled her over. When he approached the car and realized that there was a family inside, he waved them off and told them to never mind. They knew they were pulled over because the driver was African American. The daughter has expressed to my daughter an extreme sense of violation, and says her parents feels the same way, at least as strongly. Knowing them, I am sure that is true.

That doesn't happen to us.

.

I think I made it pretty clear in my post that I get that they get pulled over more. I've witnessed cars on Highway 6 and on I 80 in between Nephi and and Fillmore being pulled over and the passengers being people of color (the % of the number of cars going through those sections of road whose drivers are black has to be 2% at best, yet, in my limited time driving through those sections of road, I've seen the pull overs). It's disgusting. It's happening. We agree. That still doesn't give anybody right to resist arrest.

And I should have been more clear. Sure there are instances where there is no resistance and people get shot. But probably 75% of these issues are happening when there is some sort of fleeing or resisting arrest. Shooting at someone fleeing isn't justifiable, but it happens. And I'm not even saying that the police are right in some or most of these instances.

I'm just saying Cops have guns. If you attack them they WILL shoot you. If you resist arrest in any way, they MAY shoot you. And if you give them lip and refuse to cooperate they just MIGHT shoot you. So, don't do it.

Are we even disagreeing here? And no kidding it isn't happening to me. I think I made that clear.

[concerned]

I think I made it pretty clear in my post that I get that they get pulled over more. I've witnessed cars on Highway 6 and on I 80 in between Nephi and and Fillmore being pulled over and the passengers being people of color (the % of the number of cars going through those sections of road whose drivers are black has to be 2% at best, yet, in my limited time driving through those sections of road, I've seen the pull overs). It's disgusting. It's happening. We agree. That still doesn't give anybody right to resist arrest.

And I should have been more clear. Sure there are instances where there is no resistance and people get shot. But probably 75% of these issues are happening when there is some sort of fleeing or resisting arrest. Shooting at someone fleeing isn't justifiable, but it happens. And I'm not even saying that the police are right in some or most of these instances.

I'm just saying Cops have guns. If you attack them they WILL shoot you. If you resist arrest in any way, they MAY shoot you. And if you give them lip and refuse to cooperate they just MIGHT shoot you. So, don't do it.

Are we even disagreeing here? And no kidding it isn't happening to me. I think I made that clear.

We are not disagreeing except to the extent that you suggest that "it happens to whites too" etc., but not me because I don't have a broken tail light and have insurance. This family I mentioned didn't have a broken tail light either and I assume their registration is current; my only point is that even if whites get pulled over, the sense of violation is not necessarily the same.

[Two Utes]

We are not disagreeing except to the extent that you suggest that "it happens to whites too" etc., but not me because I don't have a broken tail light and have insurance. This family I mentioned didn't have a broken tail light either and I assume their registration is current; my only point is that even if whites get pulled over, the sense of violation is not necessarily the same.

it does happen to poor people a lot more than wealthier people. But I could have been clearer.

[LA Ute]

This is a very interesting and persuasive analysis of the Philando Castile shooting:

The Unwritten Law That Helps Bad Cops Go Free

[Rocker Ute]

I think I made it pretty clear in my post that I get that they get pulled over more. I've witnessed cars on Highway 6 and on I 80 in between Nephi and and Fillmore being pulled over and the passengers being people of color (the % of the number of cars going through those sections of road whose drivers are black has to be 2% at best, yet, in my limited time driving through those sections of road, I've seen the pull overs). It's disgusting. It's happening. We agree. That still doesn't give anybody right to resist arrest.

And I should have been more clear. Sure there are instances where there is no resistance and people get shot. But probably 75% of these issues are happening when there is some sort of fleeing or resisting arrest. Shooting at someone fleeing isn't justifiable, but it happens. And I'm not even saying that the police are right in some or most of these instances.

I'm just saying Cops have guns. If you attack them they WILL shoot you. If you resist arrest in any way, they MAY shoot you. And if you give them lip and refuse to cooperate they just MIGHT shoot you. So, don't do it.

Are we even disagreeing here? And no kidding it isn't happening to me. I think I made that clear.

I've told my kids that this isn't about police, it is just basic survival. If someone, anyone, has a gun pointed at you, do whatever they say as you can't win. Or if not, run serpentine.

https://youtu.be/A2_w-QCWpS0