Are nonbelievers allowed to post in the believer thread?
Of course. But if you want to stay on my good side (and I know that is important to you) you'll respect these wishes from the first post in the thread:
As you can see, I tried to be (relatively) inclusive. Come on in.I want to try a thread for believers of any faith. This is not intended for sectarian debate or criticizing any religion or church. It's really a place for for believers, or people who want to believe, or for people who wish they could believe, to discuss their personal faith journey. I'm glad vBulletin allows us to set up these interest group-oriented threads. Let's see how this goes.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
This is my "introduction" post from another thread that explains my faith.
Probably no surprise to 480ute as seen in previous UFN posts, I'm a devout non-denominational Christian who believes wholeheartedly in Christ as my Lord and Savior, and stands up for my faith and principles regardless of who criticizes or condemns. Grew up in Utah in a non-religious home, but identified myself with Catholicism due to my mom. My step-mom was Mormon and my dad a non-practicing Jew. My turning point came when I joined the Navy at 22 and born-again later that year, although I had nobody in my life who pointed me in that direction. I was young, dumb, and without direction until God intervened...brought me to my knees and saved me. I was never promised an easy life thereafter and life in many areas became harder; even had my momentary doubts, but the MORE I read His word, the closer I am with Him and even more I believe. I don't judge non-believers nor do I condemn them, but hope all would come to know the God that I do. Growing up in the surroundings and circumstances that I did, I have no business of being a Christian today...unless?????
White smoke from the Vatican. We'll know who the new pope is within the hour.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Tonight I am a chaperone at this month's tri-stake dance. It is light duty and the kids are having fun. I will probably go home with Taylor Swift songs playing in my head. All night.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Last edited by LA Ute; 03-16-2013 at 11:36 PM.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Watching Music and the Spoken Word this A.M. since I'm home from church with my puking 3 year old.
The choir performed Mack Willberg's arrangement of Come Thou Fount.
Still puts me to tears... in spite of my waxing or waning stages of belief.
It used to be the music that touched me. Now it's the words.
Here I raise my Ebenezer,
Hither by Thy help I’m come;
And I hope, by Thy good pleasure,
Safely to arrive at home.
Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it,
Prone to leave the God I love;
Here’s my heart, O take and seal it,
Seal it for Thy courts above.
My favorite arrangement of my favorite hymn.
Here's a biographical summary of the author, Robert Robinson. The music is a traditional tune named "Nettleton."
A performance:
Last edited by LA Ute; 03-17-2013 at 12:29 PM.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
If god exists, the number of birds he saw is conceivable because it is known. When he breaks down the number to not-9, not-8, etc, then it creates an inconceivable number, which cannot exist, meaning that the amount exists, ergo, God exists. Modus tollendo tollens.
Oh, but you're wrong. He says everything so succinctly. He wrote no novels because the short story was long enough to convey everything that needed to be said. He's like a charmingly concise Isaiah.
Amen.
De nada. I have many many more.
Cf. http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/08/3...es-barili.htmlIf life's meaning were explained to us, we probably wouldn't understand it. To think that a man can find it is absurd. We can live without understanding what the world is or who we are. The important things are the ethical instinct and the intellectual instinct, are they not? The intellectual instinct is the one that makes us search while knowing that we are never going to find the answer. I think Lessing said that if God were to declare that in His right hand He had the truth and in his left hand He had the investigation of the truth, Lessing would ask God to open His left hand - he would want God to give him the investigation of the truth, not the truth itself. Of course he would want that, because the investigation permits infinite hypotheses, and the truth is only one, and that does not suit the intellect, because the intellect needs curiosity. In the past, I tried to believe in a personal God, but I do not think I try anymore. I remember in that respect an admirable expression of Bernard Shaw: ''God is in the making.''
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
This is a very well-done video. I showed it to my early morning seminary students last year and they loved it:
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I just found this post, so here's my response: My mom was in the Tabernacle Choir five years before I was born, and left the choir just after I completed my mission. Twenty six years total. My sisters and I went to the Thursday night rehearsals, and Sunday morning broadcasts a lot. We were little Tabernacle rats, running all over the place.
I have climbed to the skylights between the roof and the plaster in the building. I've also climbed all around the organ pipes behind the facade with organist Alexander Schreiner. Good times.
Our family has 6 consecutive generations in the MoTab. It is a part of me. I feel closer to God while listening to the choir than just about any other way. It's always been a big part of my life.
Right now, my sister is a member and I watch for her every Sunday morning during the live broadcast.
Desse jeito, não tem jeito.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Our choir has been practicing for Easter next week. We are singing Christ the Lord is Risen Today and God So Loved The World. I have tunes stuck in my head this week, and find myself humming them all the time. It's a nice change from the usual fare for our choir, which is primary song arragnements.
I have a pretty good tenor voice, but am not musically trained. I know the basics of reading music, but I can't hear the tenor line when all 4 parts are played on the piano (I can pick out the base line pretty easily). Luckily, we have a member of the MoTab Choir in our ward who is a tenor. He can easily carry the entire tenor section by himself. I try to stand by or in front of him, and it's easy to follow along.
I downloaded a program called MuseScore so I can take the music home, input just the tenor part, and then have the computer play it back for me to help me "memorize" the notes. It's kind of a fun challenge and learning experience, and helps me appreciae the music more.
“To me there is no dishonor in being wrong and learning. There is dishonor in willful ignorance and there is dishonor in disrespect.” James Hatch, former Navy Seal and current Yale student.
I need that program! Thanks - I'll hunt it down.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
As we go into Easter weekend, this one is appropriate:
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Another Easter thought:
--Neal A. MaxwellThe gift of immortality to all is so choice a gift that our rejoicing in these two great and generous gifts should drown out any sorrow, assuage any grief, conquer any mood, dissolve any despair, and tame any tragedy.
Even those who see life as pointless will one day point with adoration to the performance of the Man of Galilee in the crowded moments of time known as Gethsemane and Calvary. Those who now say life is meaningless will yet applaud the atonement, which saved us all from meaninglessness.
Christ’s victory over death routs the rationale that there is a general and irreversible human predicament; there are only personal predicaments, but even from these we can also be rescued by following the pathway of Him who rescued us from general extinction.
A disciple’s “brightness of hope,” therefore, means that at funerals his tears are not because of termination, but because of interruption and separation. Though just as wet, his tears are not of despair, but of appreciation and anticipation. Yes, for disciples, the closing of a grave is but the closing of a door that will later be flung open.
It is the Garden Tomb, not life, that is empty!
Last edited by LA Ute; 03-31-2013 at 12:47 PM.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Church was good today. My SS lesson was on the Atonement in the Investigators class, and while most of the comments about the afterlife and how being obedient will bless us in this life, some people actually did respond to my prompt of "Aside from the afterlife and our feeling the Spirit, what outwardly-focused reasons might there be for wanting to follow the Savior's exmaple" with notions of sowing peace and love in the world, living a good life for goodness sake, and of not contributing to the suffering of anyone else. When I mentioned that the only time I could remember the Savior ever focusing inwardly were his comments of "let this cup pass" and "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani," the class then understood the point, and we had a lively discussion of living the good life for goodness sake, forgetting about an eternal reward and just serving because we want to be good people (and in doing so, earning an eternal reward). I mentioned 3 Nephi 13:3-4, one of my favorite scriptures, and we spoke about how doing that will lead us not worry about being seen of men, but about working out our salvation while striving to deserve the Grace that awaits us.
I won't say that I felt the Spirit, but I did feel as good at Church as I have in months because we were able to think about the Savior in meaningful ways.
"This culture doesn't sell modesty. It sells "I am more modest than you" modesty." -- Two Utes
“The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.”
― Carl Sagan
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Elder Maxwell has always been one of my favorites. He passed away while I was on my mission and I still find myself reading his stuff from time to time. His best stuff, IMO, is on patience/enduring well. When he speaks you can distinctly tell that he learned about those subjects from real experience.
Good stuff.
"The best way to obtain truth and wisdom is not to ask from books, but to go to God in prayer, and obtain divine teaching."
Joseph Smith, Jr.
His last book was written after he nearly died from leukemia. He knew it would be his last, so he entitled it "One More Strain of Praise," from the hymn "Sing We Now at Parting." He wrote about all those subjects. From the introduction:
For some reason Elder Maxwell befriended me when I was an undergraduate at the U., and he was a huge influence on me for the rest of his life, even performing my marriage to Mrs. LAU. At a personal level he was even more magnificent than in public. I always left any meeting with him wanting to be more like him.Many have helped me much with my illness. This is especially true of my oncologist, Dr. Clyde Ford, who has walked with me down the path of leukemia, including both his medical and his personal part in providing the blessed "delay en route."
Given all the "IV's" and literally hundreds of necessary injections to maintain and facilitate the "delay," this seems to be my life's pincushion period. Dr. Larry Staker, my primary-care physician, has been attentive and helpful both during and before these last leukemic years. Dr. David Hilleyer did "house calls" when my sinus problems caused concern from time to time. Numerous nurses have helped me greatly, especially Cara Mickelsen, Michelle Tittensor, Heather Swain, Julie McCandless, but also unnamed others.
All these individuals did not merely go through the motions but also went sensitively through the emotions-of mine as well as other patients' illnesses-maximizing what medicine can contribute when combined with kind care.
It is unsurprising that my wife, Colleen, has been the most responsive and helpful. This has included many times when her own supply of energy was low. Yet she was ever anxious not only to care for me but also to please me, and even to surprise me in different and thoughtful ways.
Our children and their spouses (Becky and Mike, Cory and Karen, Nancy and Mark, Jane and Marc) and all the grandchildren have likewise been special. Some may say that such familial love is merely to be expected, and in one sense it is. But when people do their family duties well, the rest of us are obvious beneficiaries. Then, rather than being something one takes for granted, it is something so generously granted in which one rejoices.
Not only have Colleen and the family, including my extended family, been superb, but Susan Jackson has also been a secondary sufferer, while being a primary helper. Furthermore, the regular prayers of so many members and friends in so many places have blessed and nurtured me, and still do, for which I shall be everlastingly grateful.
Finally, if more than in my past writings this spare volume blends the autobiographical and the doctrinal, it is because these two dimensions are actually inseparable, for I am long since rooted in the restored doctrines of the kingdom, however imperfectly I reflect them.
Doctrines believed and practiced do change and improve us, while ensuring our vital access to the Spirit. Both outcomes are crucial. No wonder, therefore, "One More Strain of Praise" especially for Jesus Christ (with chapter titles taken from the same hymn) focuses on certain key doctrines, because these continue to pervade my personal discipleship and help me to press forward in the great distance yet to be covered as to my personal improvement. How could it be otherwise? The scriptures, which we are to "liken unto ourselves," inevitably and blessedly blend the autobiographical with the doctrinal. (See 1 Ne. 19:23.)
I alone am responsible for the contents of this book, which, of course, is not an official Church publication, though I sincerely hope it will be helpful to the readers.
Last edited by LA Ute; 04-23-2013 at 11:04 AM.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell