You need to get out of your Seattle bubble more. Here's a piece by the President of the American Historical Association:Originally Posted by SeattleUte
Against Presentism
And here's a piece from that right-wing rag, The New Republic:
The Trouble with Scientism
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Neither of those pieces use those terms the way your religious apologists do. They are always eager to hijack the language of academia for their own bad faith purposes.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
You don't even know who Patrick Mason is. That much is now clear.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
As of yesterday, when I looked him up on Wikipedia, I knew he was an American historian who is the Howard W. Hunter Chair in Mormon Studies at Claremont Graduate University in Claremont, California.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
Here's his official Claremont bio:
http://www.cgu.edu/pages/9241.asp
I do not think that (1) the terms "presentism" and "scientism" are newspeak or that (2) he is abusing those terms. You seem to have abandoned both positions.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
Why doesn't it say anywhere where he went to college? My guess is he went to BYU and he's ashamed of it.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
Well, who can fault him for that?
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
He did and I'm ashamed of it. He was on the Benson scholarship.
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I've known Patrick (or Pat as our group of friends always called him to his mom's dismay) since 7th grade. His scholastic achievement is actually quite impressive, including a stint as a professor of religion at Notre Dame and a few other places. I was frankly a bit surprised that he ended up at Claremont. We've had a few interesting discussions in the past, but I've always appreciated his approach. I'm concerned that these quotes make him look like an apologist, when really my experience with him would indicate that what he is saying is take a scholarly approach and seek out the reputable sources and put in the time. Looks like SU has already labeled him as such though.
Well, he does insist on "respectable, evidence-driven, peer-reviewed scholarship." That makes his approach scholarly in my mind. The current debate is over whether "presentism" or "scientism" are "newspeak," made up by apologists, as SU asserts.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
I guess I'm viewing the term 'apologist' as someone who will bend to any length to explain or justify a position. Pat is anything but that.
I think this is a little extreme but the term definitely connotes a bias or an agenda. I do think an apologist can believe that his ultimate objective promotes a greater good. See, e.g., my Whittingham posts. They are not always cynical or mercenaries.
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
https://www.facebook.com/events/667227996662013/
So, Claremont obviously accepted a large donation to establish this HWH chair. There probably was a requirement upon which the donation was conditioned that a believing Mormon fill the HWH chair. I'm all for academic freedom so what the heck; so be it. But I wonder how many institutions would have made that bargain. (Undeniably, Claremont Graduate University is a phenomenal institution and in one of my favorite places on earth.)
One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike -- and yet it is the most precious thing we have.
--Albert Einstein
The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved out of literally nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice.
--Richard Dawkins
Be kind to all, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle.
--Philo
Pat and I have had a few talks about being a scholar and a historian regarding his own religious beliefs. I'm comfortable in saying that he likely isn't going to be employed by FAIR any time soon. You'd probably enjoy him SU, although he may run circles around you regarding this subject, no fault in that, it is his livelihood.
Last edited by Rocker Ute; 01-04-2016 at 02:28 PM.
I think the latter is the technical definition, but I believe the term is now popularly used and in particular how SU is using it as a derisive term for someone like I described.
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