We're not going to get anywhere with this discussion. Many people, smart and well-informed people, believe that the United States should have pressed harder to keep sufficient forces in Iraq to preserve what had been achieved there. I know what the response to that is. Let's just not go there.Originally Posted by NorthwestUteFan
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"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
You are throwing cheap shots and complaining when I show you to be wrong.
Perhaps one of the biggest mistakes, second to "Let's go fight a ground war in Iraq, it will be easy!", was dismantling the Iraqi army (esp. the Republican Guard). Instead of sending them home, they should have kept them functional, paid their salary, fed them, and charged them to keep the peace and rebuild their country.
We just disagree. No biggie. I didn't mean any cheap shots. (I'm actually surprised you feel that I did.). It's just that both sides of that issue have entrenched positions, and I'm kind of sick of the discussion. Besides, I like you and have no desire to get into a political debate with you that's not going to go anywhere.
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Last edited by LA Ute; 12-15-2015 at 10:17 PM.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
One thing I think we can agree on: this situation was made over by a bunch of sociopaths on both sides of the aisle who use the situation to try and score political points and I don't see anyone on the horizon with the political will to change that. Our election process all but ensures that this will continue.
I agree.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
An interesting side I have never heard about: Muslim hacktavists taking down ISIS's internet capabilities.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a8049771.html
Raqqa in Ruins, ISIS in Retreat:
http://time.com/raqqa-ruins-isis-retreat/
"It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant
What we achieved with the surge was to give the Iraqis a window of opportunity for political reform while we exited gracefully. Maliki was actively undermining what had been achieved before Obama took the oath of office. At best, a residual force would have kept us from being taken totally by surprise by the rise of ISIS in the summer of 2014.
It really shouldn't be a political debate in the first place. If we can't put politics aside we are doomed to learn the wrong lessons, IMHO.Besides, I like you and have no desire to get into a political debate with you that's not going to go anywhere.
Last edited by USS Utah; 12-16-2015 at 07:01 PM.
"It'd be nice to please everyone but I thought it would be more interesting to have a point of view." -- Oscar Levant
That would be fun.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
--Antoine de Saint-Exupery
"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold."
--Yeats
“True, we [lawyers] build no bridges. We raise no towers. We construct no engines. We paint no pictures - unless as amateurs for our own principal amusement. There is little of all that we do which the eye of man can see. But we smooth out difficulties; we relieve stress; we correct mistakes; we take up other men's burdens and by our efforts we make possible the peaceful life of men in a peaceful state.”
--John W. Davis, founder of Davis Polk & Wardwell
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